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Topic : Valve Clearance Check and Shim adjustment
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 peteronkarra 
Chaac
Reg. Date : 01/04/2012
Posts : 829
Location : Karragarra Island, Queensland, Australia
Posted : 20 Nov 2017 - 22:31   Post title : Re: Valve Clearance Check and Shim adjustment (Re: Leethal)
 
Something that has come up recently. When measuring the exhaust cam clearances remember to actuate the decompressors. IE spread the counterweights so the decompressor is not acting on the outer exhaust valves. Something that apparently is not in the manual.

 
I sometimes wonder what I"ll do when I grow up.... but not very often
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 fab 
Thor
Reg. Date : 12/10/2009
Posts : 2,515
Location : wyong, nsw, Australia
Posted : 21 Nov 2017 - 07:16   Post title : Re: Valve Clearance Check and Shim adjustment (Re: peteronkarra)
 

peteronkarra wrote:

Something that has come up recently. When measuring the exhaust cam clearances remember to actuate the decompressors. IE spread the counterweights so the decompressor is not acting on the outer exhaust valves. Something that apparently is not in the manual.




 

Remember, soft cocks hang around all life long, hard ones come and go

ahh f**k im deep
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 AleXL4 
Chaac
Reg. Date : 17/09/2012
Posts : 571
Location : Gympie, Queensland, Australia
Posted : 21 Jan 2018 - 06:55   Post title : Re: Valve Clearance Check and Shim adjustment (Re: peteronkarra)
 


 
Enjoying the Journey
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 Cody 
Set
Reg. Date : 01/04/2010
Posts : 208
Location : Siloam Springs, Arkansas, United States
Posted : 15 Apr 2018 - 04:40   Post title : Re: Valve Clearance Check and Shim adjustment (Re: peteronkarra)
 

peteronkarra wrote:

Something that has come up recently. When measuring the exhaust cam clearances remember to actuate the decompressors. IE spread the counterweights so the decompressor is not acting on the outer exhaust valves. Something that apparently is not in the manual.



I'm currently doing a valve adjustment. Everything is close to spec except for the two outer exhaust valves, which are both around .8 mm. (Way too much gap) I thought it was a sloppy build at the factory. Could this be because of the decompressor? So, if I get this right, I need to spread the counterweights apart as I spin the cam lobes into place. Does the decompressor only act on the outside exhaust valve. There seem to be some gotchyas here.

 
This country was founded on the premise that I would have freedom from your religion.
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 peteronkarra 
Chaac
Reg. Date : 01/04/2012
Posts : 829
Location : Karragarra Island, Queensland, Australia
Posted : 15 Apr 2018 - 06:36   Post title : Re: Valve Clearance Check and Shim adjustment (Re: Cody)
 
Cody. Sounds like that is what is going on. Yes the decomp works on the outside 2 exhaust valves. And yes you need to spread the counterweights while you position the cam

 
I sometimes wonder what I"ll do when I grow up.... but not very often
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 Cody 
Set
Reg. Date : 01/04/2010
Posts : 208
Location : Siloam Springs, Arkansas, United States
Posted : 15 Apr 2018 - 19:52   Post title : Re: Valve Clearance Check and Shim adjustment (Re: peteronkarra)
 
peteronkarra wrote:

Cody. Sounds like that is what is going on. Yes the decomp works on the outside 2 exhaust valves. And yes you need to spread the counterweights while you position the cam


Peter, thanks for the help.

This morning I rechecked all the clearances, and made sure to spread the counterweights as I set the cam lobes. Viola! The valves were right on the money.

Oddly enough, I played with those counterweights and saw how they make that little tiny cam flip around. I just didn't put 2 and 2 together when I set the lobe to check the clearance.

I'm ready to button it up and start riding.


 
This country was founded on the premise that I would have freedom from your religion.
Post edited by Cody on 15 Apr 2018 - 19:56
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 peteronkarra 
Chaac
Reg. Date : 01/04/2012
Posts : 829
Location : Karragarra Island, Queensland, Australia
Posted : 15 Apr 2018 - 23:12   Post title : Re: Valve Clearance Check and Shim adjustment (Re: Cody)
 


 
I sometimes wonder what I"ll do when I grow up.... but not very often
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 LouLewis 
Set
Reg. Date : 26/03/2015
Posts : 8
Location : Carlisle, United Kingdom
Posted : 20 Feb 2022 - 19:28   Post title : Re: Valve Clearance Check and Shim adjustment (Re: peteronkarra)
 
Sorry to add to a thread that has been quiet for quite a while, but I'm after a bit of advice/confirmation.

I've done the valve checks a couple of times now, but this time I have to make some adjustments.

I've removed the alternator cover and about to remove the rotor bolt.

My question is - is the rotor bolt a normal 'lefty loosey' thread or is it a reverse thread?

I don't know why, but I have a nagging doubt in my head, and I don't want to bust a nut (or worse still, the bike) trying to loosen something when I am actually tightening it up.

Appreciate the advice. Thanks in advance.

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 Leethal 
Zeus
Reg. Date : 24/01/2011
Posts : 6,407
Location :  Australia
Posted : 20 Feb 2022 - 21:25   Post title : Re: Valve Clearance Check and Shim adjustment (Re: LouLewis)
 
It's a normal RH thread. You will need a timing pin and other specific tools. All the info is on the forum, somewhere.

 
Experience is something you get just after you needed it
1600,Foran Razorbacks, Meerkat bypass, Dyno tune, real headlight,plenty of chrome,switchblade pegs, Hagon Nitro shocks & Ikon progressive fork springs etc. Scorpion Western Low handlebars. PH adjustable fork caps.
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 LouLewis 
Set
Reg. Date : 26/03/2015
Posts : 8
Location : Carlisle, United Kingdom
Posted : 21 Feb 2022 - 17:36   Post title : Re: Valve Clearance Check and Shim adjustment (Re: Leethal)
 
Thanks for the confirmation. It's much appreciated.

I do have the three Triumph tools, holding bar for the rotor, the large drift to remove the rotor and the timing pin. So I should be good to go.

Just got the centre bolt out - I'm in! Fingers crossed for a drama free shim change.

Thanks again.

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 Leethal 
Zeus
Reg. Date : 24/01/2011
Posts : 6,407
Location :  Australia
Posted : 21 Feb 2022 - 21:03   Post title : Re: Valve Clearance Check and Shim adjustment (Re: LouLewis)
 
Good luck.

 
Experience is something you get just after you needed it
1600,Foran Razorbacks, Meerkat bypass, Dyno tune, real headlight,plenty of chrome,switchblade pegs, Hagon Nitro shocks & Ikon progressive fork springs etc. Scorpion Western Low handlebars. PH adjustable fork caps.
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 MotorMac 
Jupiter
Reg. Date : 29/08/2010
Posts : 1,790
Location : Nor Cal, United States
Posted : 22 Feb 2022 - 19:20   Post title : Re: Valve Clearance Check and Shim adjustment (Re: LouLewis)
 
Curious what your mileage is and what it was at previous checks...?
My T-Bird is running so sweet I hesitate to check clearance.


 

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 Linkdog 
Thor
Reg. Date : 10/02/2011
Posts : 2,923
Location : Groveland, FL., United States
Posted : 23 Feb 2022 - 14:10   Post title : Re: Valve Clearance Check and Shim adjustment (Re: MotorMac)
 
Mines at 60k, last check at 12k . I'm sure the fly weights are broke ( no more ticking ) so I need to get in there.

 
Never drink from a cow with one udder! 2010 1600 Blue&White ( of course ) Long TORS and HP filter.
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 daz 
Zeus
Reg. Date : 12/05/2009
Posts : 7,686
Location :  United States
Posted : 27 Feb 2022 - 00:58   Post title : Re: Valve Clearance Check and Shim adjustment (Re: Linkdog)
 

Linkdog wrote:

Mines at 60k, last check at 12k . I'm sure the fly weights are broke ( no more ticking ) so I need to get in there.


Same here. Mine at 24k but i'm more then 10k further along than you, 85k. So i've gone 15k longer and also my startup decomp weights stopped clicking LONG ago. Probably 40-50k ago. Hell, Dave went 125k w/o any valve adjustments ! But then i guess thats ok because he used that magical dino oil.

 
2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
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 Leethal 
Zeus
Reg. Date : 24/01/2011
Posts : 6,407
Location :  Australia
Posted : 27 Feb 2022 - 06:47   Post title : Re: Valve Clearance Check and Shim adjustment (Re: Linkdog)
 

Linkdog wrote:

Mines at 60k, last check at 12k . I'm sure the fly weights are broke ( no more ticking ) so I need to get in there.


Kevin you would know if they were, the starter would struggle to operate for the first revolution.

 
Experience is something you get just after you needed it
1600,Foran Razorbacks, Meerkat bypass, Dyno tune, real headlight,plenty of chrome,switchblade pegs, Hagon Nitro shocks & Ikon progressive fork springs etc. Scorpion Western Low handlebars. PH adjustable fork caps.
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 MotorMac 
Jupiter
Reg. Date : 29/08/2010
Posts : 1,790
Location : Nor Cal, United States
Posted : 27 Feb 2022 - 18:03   Post title : Re: Valve Clearance Check and Shim adjustment (Re: Leethal)
 
I guess I'm in Dave's camp.....
With the added advantage of using top-grade synthetic oil.

We turn now to our expert in the field...


 

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 Linkdog 
Thor
Reg. Date : 10/02/2011
Posts : 2,923
Location : Groveland, FL., United States
Posted : 03 Mar 2022 - 16:58   Post title : Re: Valve Clearance Check and Shim adjustment (Re: Leethal)
 

Leethal wrote:

Linkdog wrote:

Mines at 60k, last check at 12k . I'm sure the fly weights are broke ( no more ticking ) so I need to get in there.


Kevin you would know if they were, the starter would struggle to operate for the first revolution.


OK, but these things were like clockwork, after starting " tick tick tick" and then quiet. Now it's quiet, I'll know when I pull the cover.

 
Never drink from a cow with one udder! 2010 1600 Blue&White ( of course ) Long TORS and HP filter.
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 Leethal 
Zeus
Reg. Date : 24/01/2011
Posts : 6,407
Location :  Australia
Posted : 03 Mar 2022 - 21:20   Post title : Re: Valve Clearance Check and Shim adjustment (Re: Linkdog)
 
Valve clearance may tell the tale then, if it was a broken decompressor and the engine was starting without a struggle then compression would be an issue and I doubt that. I'm betting your intakes have closed up.

 
Experience is something you get just after you needed it
1600,Foran Razorbacks, Meerkat bypass, Dyno tune, real headlight,plenty of chrome,switchblade pegs, Hagon Nitro shocks & Ikon progressive fork springs etc. Scorpion Western Low handlebars. PH adjustable fork caps.
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 daz 
Zeus
Reg. Date : 12/05/2009
Posts : 7,686
Location :  United States
Posted : 26 Apr 2022 - 19:35   Post title : Re: Valve Clearance Check and Shim adjustment (Re: Leethal)
 
Man, i looked at moorman's guide on valve adjustment and it's a real eye opener. I wouldn't attempt this with a gun to my head. Unfortunately I also wouldn't have it done anywhere but mickey cohen because i know i can trust him. And now i live hours away from him since i moved so thats out. And most dealers are clueless about how tedious and long the procedure is on a Tbird and no way i'd pay $500 or more (probably more like $600 by now) and risk what i know is very likely to happen....they check it and unless theres a serious difference in the measurements they may well pass on pulling the cams to shim it and just say they did it. Whos gonna know. So at 85k miles i have little choice but to sell it, so when i get the T120 looks like i'm putting the Tbird up. Hate to do it, as i wanted to keep it but because of the valve adjustment situation i'll likely sell it. Thats gotta be the worse thing about this design. Wish it has self adjusting like harleys. I'd gladly lose a few HP for that.

 
2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
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 Slcharger 
Jupiter
Reg. Date : 18/02/2016
Posts : 1,661
Location :  Denmark
Posted : 28 Apr 2022 - 19:34   Post title : Re: Valve Clearance Check and Shim adjustment (Re: daz)
 
Daz, I don't think you have to sell the bike.

I have a lot of exsperience with the bird, and valve clearence, and just completed a full valve clearence check. It's a pain in the ass, admitted, but I have still to adjust the clearence, not done yet, despite the bike have 100k kilometers on the clock. The clearence is rock solid within the tolrerances, and if you don't exsperience any problems, like backfire just leave it and drive it.

If you want to be safe, checking is actually not too bad, remove the tank, remove the cooling pipe at the top, remove the cylinderhead cover, remove 2 sparkplugs. You can now check the clearence with feeler gauge, and if they are not out of spec, leave it as is, fit everything again and drive away happy.

By the way, 25mm shims from Honda fits perfect, and cost a lot less than those from Triumph.

Kim

 
Big Bird, Bordeaux with " Celtic theme " Airbrush, 2010, 1700CC, ABS, 65.000 km. Lowered with Nitros rear shocks, Linear front springs, Burchard forward footrest kit, Kuryakyn ISO grips, LOTS of chrome, SLcharger REV2+ tune, Modified Cee Baileys windshield, Oil pressure gauge, Air box elimination kit, Portet cylinderhead, Intake cam advanved 8 degree, Exhaust cam retarded 2 degree, 10.5 C/R, Knock sensor, Machined flywheel, DNA Chrome Spoke wheels, 18x8.5"- AVON AV72- 240/40/18, 21x3.5"- AVON AV71- 120/70/21, Corbin seat with backrest, 20W fork oil. Hiflo HF303RC oil filter, Penrite Racing 20-20W60 engine oil, Adjurl lights.
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 daz 
Zeus
Reg. Date : 12/05/2009
Posts : 7,686
Location :  United States
Posted : 28 Apr 2022 - 20:57   Post title : Re: Valve Clearance Check and Shim adjustment (Re: Slcharger)
 
Thanks Kim. I put a lot of stock in what you say so maybe i will keep it. It runs absolutely perfect and never backfires at all. Doesn't even knock anymore in the last year or so since i lost the gutted cat, put the 02's back in, went back to the tors tune and began running mobil 1 V-twin. I always wondered about how Dave went 124,000 miles w/o ever having done a adjustment. And mine has only gone about 60,000 miles since it was adjusted 12k after i have the 1700 kit installed. All wheel bearings have recently been replaced and new belt and clutch cable. So maybe i'll replace the throttle cables and hang onto it. I initially wanted it to be my bucket bike and at my age now i think it will make it if i don't have to worry about valves. At the very least I now will consider it. I'm about an inch away from pulling the trigger on a T120 so the bird won't even have that many miles put on it in coming years.

By the way Kim, any thoughts on spoked wheel flat repair on the road? I'm absolutely not gonna do that tubeless tape conversion some people do but i'm rather worried about spoked wheels because most of my riding these days is in the middle of nowhere. Last thing i need is to be stuck with no cell service and no way to fix a flat. I've looked at slime and that canned fix a flat stuff and ride on but the reviews all have a lot of negative experiences with them all. The only other possibility is saddle bags for a took kit and thats a nightmare in and of itself.

 
2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
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 Leethal 
Zeus
Reg. Date : 24/01/2011
Posts : 6,407
Location :  Australia
Posted : 18 Apr 2023 - 21:47   Post title : Re: Valve Clearance Check and Shim adjustment (Re: Slcharger)
 

Slcharger wrote:

Daz, I don't think you have to sell the bike.

I have a lot of exsperience with the bird, and valve clearence, and just completed a full valve clearence check. It's a pain in the ass, admitted, but I have still to adjust the clearence, not done yet, despite the bike have 100k kilometers on the clock. The clearence is rock solid within the tolrerances, and if you don't exsperience any problems, like backfire just leave it and drive it.

If you want to be safe, checking is actually not too bad, remove the tank, remove the cooling pipe at the top, remove the cylinderhead cover, remove 2 sparkplugs. You can now check the clearence with feeler gauge, and if they are not out of spec, leave it as is, fit everything again and drive away happy.

By the way, 25mm shims from Honda fits perfect, and cost a lot less than those from Triumph.

Kim


Kim, I would love to know why your bike has not needed valve shim adjustments yet. Every time I check mine the inlets have altered, exhaust have been ok for a long time. Mine has done 180000kms.

 
Experience is something you get just after you needed it
1600,Foran Razorbacks, Meerkat bypass, Dyno tune, real headlight,plenty of chrome,switchblade pegs, Hagon Nitro shocks & Ikon progressive fork springs etc. Scorpion Western Low handlebars. PH adjustable fork caps.
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 Slcharger 
Jupiter
Reg. Date : 18/02/2016
Posts : 1,661
Location :  Denmark
Posted : 19 Apr 2023 - 07:59   Post title : Re: Valve Clearance Check and Shim adjustment (Re: Leethal)
 

Leethal wrote:

Slcharger wrote:

Daz, I don't think you have to sell the bike.

I have a lot of exsperience with the bird, and valve clearence, and just completed a full valve clearence check. It's a pain in the ass, admitted, but I have still to adjust the clearence, not done yet, despite the bike have 100k kilometers on the clock. The clearence is rock solid within the tolrerances, and if you don't exsperience any problems, like backfire just leave it and drive it.

If you want to be safe, checking is actually not too bad, remove the tank, remove the cooling pipe at the top, remove the cylinderhead cover, remove 2 sparkplugs. You can now check the clearence with feeler gauge, and if they are not out of spec, leave it as is, fit everything again and drive away happy.

By the way, 25mm shims from Honda fits perfect, and cost a lot less than those from Triumph.

Kim


Kim, I would love to know why your bike has not needed valve shim adjustments yet. Every time I check mine the inlets have altered, exhaust have been ok for a long time. Mine has done 180000kms.


Lee
First a short introduction to valve lash, for those not familiar with the topic.
The change in valve lash comes from the valve slamming into the seat, when closing, I think we can agree on that. The valve lash is chosen by Triumph to compensate for slamming, but also to compensate for the heat expansion of the valve stem, due to combustion heat load on the valves. Since the intake valve only experience heat in closed condition, the valve lash is less than the exhaust, where the hot gasses pass around the valve in addition to the combustion heat load. Therefore the larger valve lash on the exhaust side. Beside of that the intake valve is cooled by the intake charge, petrol vaporizing etc. And on top of that Triumph chose a safety margin of lash, to ensure that the cam never forces the valve to stay open.

To your question, why I don't have change in valve lash, over time, riding.
In my younger day's I was doing a lot of motor sports, building my own engines ( could not afford to buy em race ready ), and I learned a few things back then. The valve slamming problem is even worse with high reeving engines, so adjusting valve lash, and refreshing valve seats where frequent work to do. In order to minimize the work, I started experimenting with reduced valve lash, and I found that by choosing the right lash, the problem could be reduced significantly. So I did the same to the bird, running reduced valve lash, so that the valves are landing soft in the seat, and lash is reduced to about 0, when hot.
At the same time the reduced lash gives the cams a bit longer duration, means a bit more power. Beneficial side effect.

Now I guess some ppl. will try to tell me how dangerous this is to the engine, but until now it has been working for 50.000 km, no adjustment needed. I do though not recommend others to try copy me, as it can total your cylinder head, and that is also why i don't give any data on how I have shimmed the valves.



 
Big Bird, Bordeaux with " Celtic theme " Airbrush, 2010, 1700CC, ABS, 65.000 km. Lowered with Nitros rear shocks, Linear front springs, Burchard forward footrest kit, Kuryakyn ISO grips, LOTS of chrome, SLcharger REV2+ tune, Modified Cee Baileys windshield, Oil pressure gauge, Air box elimination kit, Portet cylinderhead, Intake cam advanved 8 degree, Exhaust cam retarded 2 degree, 10.5 C/R, Knock sensor, Machined flywheel, DNA Chrome Spoke wheels, 18x8.5"- AVON AV72- 240/40/18, 21x3.5"- AVON AV71- 120/70/21, Corbin seat with backrest, 20W fork oil. Hiflo HF303RC oil filter, Penrite Racing 20-20W60 engine oil, Adjurl lights.
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 Leethal 
Zeus
Reg. Date : 24/01/2011
Posts : 6,407
Location :  Australia
Posted : 19 Apr 2023 - 21:03   Post title : Re: Valve Clearance Check and Shim adjustment (Re: Slcharger)
 
Thanks Kim, I seem to recall that you have mentioned this before, my memory fails me sometimes. I can see the logic.

 
Experience is something you get just after you needed it
1600,Foran Razorbacks, Meerkat bypass, Dyno tune, real headlight,plenty of chrome,switchblade pegs, Hagon Nitro shocks & Ikon progressive fork springs etc. Scorpion Western Low handlebars. PH adjustable fork caps.
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 Slcharger 
Jupiter
Reg. Date : 18/02/2016
Posts : 1,661
Location :  Denmark
Posted : 19 Apr 2023 - 21:29   Post title : Re: Valve Clearance Check and Shim adjustment (Re: Leethal)
 

Leethal wrote:

Thanks Kim, I seem to recall that you have mentioned this before, my memory fails me sometimes. I can see the logic.


Yes, I mentioned it during my porting CR raise on the motor.

But welcome to the club, it has to do with age, memory loss.

Sometimes you just can't remember where you put stuff, Monday I couldn't find my phone after breakfast, used my wife's phone to ring it, and found it in the fridge.
How the F**k did it end up there



 
Big Bird, Bordeaux with " Celtic theme " Airbrush, 2010, 1700CC, ABS, 65.000 km. Lowered with Nitros rear shocks, Linear front springs, Burchard forward footrest kit, Kuryakyn ISO grips, LOTS of chrome, SLcharger REV2+ tune, Modified Cee Baileys windshield, Oil pressure gauge, Air box elimination kit, Portet cylinderhead, Intake cam advanved 8 degree, Exhaust cam retarded 2 degree, 10.5 C/R, Knock sensor, Machined flywheel, DNA Chrome Spoke wheels, 18x8.5"- AVON AV72- 240/40/18, 21x3.5"- AVON AV71- 120/70/21, Corbin seat with backrest, 20W fork oil. Hiflo HF303RC oil filter, Penrite Racing 20-20W60 engine oil, Adjurl lights.
 Author 
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 Leethal 
Zeus
Reg. Date : 24/01/2011
Posts : 6,407
Location :  Australia
Posted : 20 Apr 2023 - 07:17   Post title : Re: Valve Clearance Check and Shim adjustment (Re: Slcharger)
 


 
Experience is something you get just after you needed it
1600,Foran Razorbacks, Meerkat bypass, Dyno tune, real headlight,plenty of chrome,switchblade pegs, Hagon Nitro shocks & Ikon progressive fork springs etc. Scorpion Western Low handlebars. PH adjustable fork caps.
 Author 
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 AZCactus 
Taranis
Reg. Date : 01/05/2013
Posts : 4,524
Location : AZ
Posted : 20 Apr 2023 - 12:59   Post title : Re: Valve Clearance Check and Shim adjustment (Re: Leethal)
 
Leethal wrote:

...my memory fails me sometimes.

Hey Lee, at some point I may consider an AI implant!


 
2009 Thunderbird 1700 Big Bore

 Author 
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 Leethal 
Zeus
Reg. Date : 24/01/2011
Posts : 6,407
Location :  Australia
Posted : 21 Apr 2023 - 05:33   Post title : Re: Valve Clearance Check and Shim adjustment (Re: AZCactus)
 
Please explain Rich.

 
Experience is something you get just after you needed it
1600,Foran Razorbacks, Meerkat bypass, Dyno tune, real headlight,plenty of chrome,switchblade pegs, Hagon Nitro shocks & Ikon progressive fork springs etc. Scorpion Western Low handlebars. PH adjustable fork caps.
 Author 
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 AZCactus 
Taranis
Reg. Date : 01/05/2013
Posts : 4,524
Location : AZ
Posted : 21 Apr 2023 - 12:34   Post title : Re: Valve Clearance Check and Shim adjustment (Re: Leethal)
 
...a joke, to rely on artificial intelligence. Cheers and Happy Rides.

 
2009 Thunderbird 1700 Big Bore

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